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  #31  
Old 21-05-2018, 07:52 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Ok....so the next update.

Finally got to meet Paul Bottomley @ APS engineering.

Lovely guy, communicates well, seemed to understand what I am trying to do (which is make my car safer). Added to that - he really (like really) knows his stuff. Clean shop as well. First meeting cost $140 bucks, but yeah - he seemed a pretty reasonable sort of guy.

He said he would reach out to Ridetech as well, try to get something happening there - so let's see what happens.

I am getting the 4link fitted soon, so will update more once things progress.
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  #32  
Old 25-05-2018, 11:46 AM
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Hi Guys,

Ridetech have responded again. Britt (director of ridetech engineering) has reviewed the australian regulation documents that my aussie engineer (Paul) put them onto.
Sounds like they will be doing everything they can to get us the information we need. What they test and what we test may have some differences, but I am confident that both sides are going to - at worst - meet somewhere in the middle. Hoping this work will translate into an easier path for those following me though. Seems most of the testing and concern relates to the front end components, specifically spindles and lower control arm. Ideally all items should be tested for VASS approval though. Let you know how it all goes.
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:41 AM
Shan Shan is offline
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Just an update - this is still ongoing.

Ridetech in the USA seem to be really willing to help - which is good.

The engineer on my side has also been good, but he seems a little...busy. So things are dragging on a bit.

Can't blame the engineer for having a bit on, probably a fair indication he is in demand and good at what he does. He also seems very competent and knowledgeable and does appear to be real deal, BUT so far it's been up to me to nudge things along. A little frustrating.

Early days yet I suppose, but I am a little concerned about losing momentum and Ridetech's interest.

Hopefully I will have more to add next week..... : (
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  #34  
Old 12-06-2018, 07:37 AM
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fingers and toes crossed !!
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  #35  
Old 14-06-2018, 09:55 AM
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Hi guys,

Well things have moved on a little although that said - may have had a bit of a setback...I think.....

Ridetech have been communicating with us - which is great. They have been reviewing all the VIC guidelines specific to getting their parts onto victorian cars (or the Gen1 camaro in my case).

The key thing for any structural item going onto your car that is not "standard" is that it has been "tested".

What does that mean?

OK - so there is physical testing of product/parts and also CAD testing of products through software (what they call CAD FEA). Both are acceptable.

The purpose of these test is to confirm that the parts conform with specific load cases as set out in these guidelines that the VASS engineers have to work with.

If your part has been tested and passed these load cases - through either physical testing or CAD FEA - then you are fine.

If not - then it gets interesting.

Cheapest way to get items approved is obviously the CAD FEA software route. This is definitely the way you want to go.

This requires the proper CAD diagrams though, or access to the CAD files so they can be finalised for the FEA testing. IF the CAD diagrams are not great - then you are looking at 3d scanning of the parts on top of everything else.

$$$$$

Ridetech have sent us CAD diagrams, which I cannot open as I do not have the software, but they admitted they would not be suitable for CAD FEA testing - they need work.

So yeah - I am now not as optimistic.

I know that 1000's of camaro's in the usa have been giving these parts a caning for years - under what I would consider extreme load cases in autocross and other race applications. I have researched this heavily and am yet to find a forum post indicating failure under load. Certainly nothing the would indicate a pattern.

Not saying that is a guarantee, but if there is bugger-all mention of issues on the forums and web in general, no noise or complaints more generally - then you would think product is sound.

I will keep pushing on though - see where this goes.

Not sure I want to spend the money on 3d modelling though - hopefully does not come to that.

Shan
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2018, 01:57 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Not much more to add at this stage. Waiting on quotes for FEA testing (Finite Element Analysis) of the parts.

So - a good rundown of what you need to know is here: http://www.bremarauto.com/vsb14-suspension-simulation/

The guidelines these engineers in VIC use are all found in VSB14. From people I have spoken to - engineers all apply their own interpretation to the guidelines. Few will treat the same upgrades the same way. It is all a bit silly.

If anyone else needs them - the CAD files I was provided by ridetech can be found here for Tru Turn and Upper and lower control arms:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Pka2a4Tf_TGoFn
Also includes metals materials specs and weld certs of their workers.

CAD diagrams do not have welds though and there are gaps in some of the parts, so I believe they may not hold up to FEA testing. Although one guy I spoke to said they should be ok, they can bond the parts in CAD software and perform the load case tests anyway. Same guy said weld calculations are performed at a local level....getting that confirmed though.

I'll continue to push forward though.....see where this goes.

Certainly more of a headache than I anticipated.
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  #37  
Old 13-08-2018, 05:48 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Hi guys,

Update on this one. Have not gotten far unfortunately.

So my VASS guy provided my testing requirements to an engineer that does this FEA CAD computer testing of parts. Then it went quiet.

I then chased this up with the FEA engineer who finally returned my call, promised to get me a quote for FEA tests - then nothing.

For those of you reading - if you go down this VASS path, you better get used to being disappointed. I would also counsel you to select your VASS engineer VERY carefully.

If you read the rest of my comments on this post, you will see I had a LOT of trouble even finding an engineer who would return a phone call. In my case, I hooked up with the first one who did. Maybe not my best decision.

The guy I selected does know his **** - no question, but he is simply too busy (at least at the moment) to give me the kind of focus I need.

It is only my opinion (not fact), but I get the impression these smaller vehicle mod projects must be the type of work these VASS guys prefer to avoid as well.

No-one will be tripping over their feet for your business - I can promise you that much (at least in VIC).

So to be candid - have been losing hope a little....

Some kinda good news though....was speaking to a metal fabricator - he provided me with another engineers details.

An out of curiosity - I called this other engineer - had a really refreshing conversation.

I have said previously that "common opinion" was that each VASS engineer responds to the VSB14 guidelines in their own way...I can now confirm that is 100% the case.

This other engineer thought FEA was over the top for my requirement.

Basically said the whole VASS thing was a blame game - in the event something goes wrong - everyone involved wants to be in a position to point the finger at someone else.

Anyway - this new engineer seems a LOT more open to simplifying the process. At least that is what he said on the phone.

Ok - now that said - I get the impression that this guy is also a busy boy. He was not tripping over himself for my business either. So at this point - not sure if I should stick with the original VASS guy or maybe jump ship.

Will work it out and let you know.

This VASS approval stuff is a bit of a journey though. Go into it with eyes WIDE open.
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  #38  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:38 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Nothing further to add on my VASS journey.

Things have stalled a little while rust is cut out of the car.

Also had some other things going on which have taken my finances and focus.

Hopefully have more to add after christmas....will be slow going for a bit.

Definitely have NOT given up though.....
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2019, 01:52 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Hi all,

Some updates for you....

Was introduced to yet another engineer who just happened to be in the shop where my car was getting some work done. So was a casual conversation.

Anyway.....he had different opinions yet again to other engineers I have spoken with. This VASS stuff is definitely a frustrating experience.

If anyone enters into this journey - two of the more expensive things you can do (in regards to VASS engineer testing), is change the suspension and brakes.

This engineer was talking about booking the straight at Sandown raceway in order to check the brakes. Drive 100Km per hour and brake heavily numerous times in a row in order to prove no fade on brakes. There was specialist testing kit he had to hire to perform tests. Suspension also required similar type testing.

Anywhere between $3500 to $4000 to get all the tests done for brakes and suspension (which should include the engineers report).

At this point - I am locked in with all the Ridetech kit anyway, so I am going to complete the full conversion, install it and take it from there.

So - simply just put it all on and pray that it gets through all the engineers required tests.

It appears some engineers want to test more than others, but either way - there is no cheap way around getting it done.

This guy also wanted to see photo's of the installations and preferred it was all done "professionally", so if you were planning on doing some of it at home - check with your engineer first.

Still currently intending to pursue this with my original engineer (Paul Bottomley as earlier mentioned in this post), simply because he started the journey with me.

I'll get all the kit installed and update you again from there.
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:59 PM
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Shaun, I had to have mine brake tested. We just did a quite road out of town. The machine they use suction cups to the windscreen. The guy doing mine, didn't get it right and it dropped onto my freshly painted dash...you can imagine my frustration and his look of completely apologetic sheepishness when it slammed the dash. Anyway we got under way. I forget the exact numbers but it was something like accelerate to 100 KPH mash the brakes and he was expecting a negative G of 1 G. (I can't remember exactly it was 7 years ago). Anyway he was only getting about 0.6 G and wasn't going to pass it. But this is what he would do, accelerate to 100 KPH, then get off it then lightly press the brake rather than jump on it. Remember it's got 4 week discs, 330MM with a Hydroboost. So I said let me drive. 100 KPH and I jumped on it...I mean jumped on it, we pulled 1.3 negative G from memory. Bottom line it passed. So yeah had to go through all that myself, albeit it was cheaper back then but not much cheaper. Actually a fun experience.
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  #41  
Old 04-02-2019, 04:59 PM
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Shaun, I had to have mine brake tested. We just did a quiet road out of town. The machine they use suction cups to the windscreen. The guy doing mine, didn't get it right and it dropped onto my freshly painted dash...you can imagine my frustration and his look of completely apologetic sheepishness when it slammed the dash. Anyway we got under way. I forget the exact numbers but it was something like accelerate to 100 KPH mash the brakes and he was expecting a negative G of 1 G. (I can't remember exactly it was 7 years ago). Anyway he was only getting about 0.6 G and wasn't going to pass it. But this is what he would do, accelerate to 100 KPH, then get off it (car would slow to 85-ish) then lightly press the brake rather than jump on it. Remember it's got 4 wheel discs, 330MM with a Hydroboost. So I said let me drive. 100 KPH and I jumped on it...I mean jumped on it, we pulled 1.3 negative G from memory. Bottom line it passed. So yeah had to go through all that myself, albeit it was cheaper back then but not much cheaper. Actually a fun experience.
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  #42  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:27 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Thanks for that bit of info. A quiet road outside of town sounds sensible, but yeah....I am tipping insurance and coverage etc etc probably force these engineers down more regulated routes for testing....hence sandown.
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