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  #31  
Old 30-06-2012, 11:59 AM
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Do you have a vacuum switch that turn off the pump when it get's down to 18-20in of vacuum?
I'm going to use a 18-22in/hg Normally Closed vacuum switch (see page 6) and all wired straight off the junction block via a 15amp thermatically resetting circuit breaker, so if the fuse trips, it will cool down and switch back on until I can fault-find. That's so I don't lose brakes when driving or have to carry a bunch of fuses.

Also, if I have the room, I will also fit a cannister to let the pump store some vacuum. That way, the pump wont need to be used as often, and if I lose power somehow, I'll have loads of brake applications until the cannister's vacuum is used up.
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Last edited by BlackoutSteve; 01-07-2012 at 11:24 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #32  
Old 30-06-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutsteve View Post
Part throttle -when not requiring power/enrichment, will often have close to, or less manifold vacuum than at idle. That's why the vacuum at idle (and in drive if an auto) is what you use to select your power valve/s opening point.
If you have only 4 or 5in/hg at idle with 6.5 PVs, I'd imagine that in most cases when the main system begins to operate, if will be full rich with the PVs open, with the additional fuel not being required.

With your vacuum at idle, Holley themselves also suggest the same 2.5" valves.
http://www.holley.com/data/TechServi...wer_valves.pdf
Steve this is not pissing match.It works like this for higher performance motors.Yes holley say half vacuum,i normally go 2" less than idle.it's a preference experiance thing.if you have a problem with my reasoning so be it.But i did learn this from a high end US carby shop and tried it out,it worked for me.as i said i spend a reasonable amount of time on the dyno to see what differences i can find.then i drag race it to back up the results
the op asked re vacuum pump,i answered that and reasons for.

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  #33  
Old 30-06-2012, 12:53 PM
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No pissing match.. Just thought you were unaware on what PV was required and offered Holley's info for you.
I'd be interested to know that carb shop's reasoning.. New to me.
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  #34  
Old 30-06-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutsteve View Post

http://www.ssbrakes.com/commerce/det....cfm?nPID=9439



Other option is to swap my valve gear for shaft mounted, swap to shorter OE valve covers and increase booster closer to OE.. But the problem is I still don't make enough vacuum..
Steve I use one of these units. I went for this brand because the are like an old work horse reliability wise, hid it in the front left fender.

Gave me full pedal where I had zero before. I am in the process of replacing my 7" dual diaphram booster for a 9", not happy with the smaller booster. My new booster is powder coated red the brackets as well, all bolt ons are polished.
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2012, 09:40 AM
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It's the 7x8x5 (=280cu/in) dimensions that Summit list that I feel is just too big for "hiding" anywhere on my car.. They look like they weigh a lot too. Amazon list the kit shipping wieght at 8.4lbs/3.8kg.
I already have my MSD 6AL somewhat hidden under my left guard and the A/C's dryer under the other (it's stock location).
The Hella UP30 is considerably smaller (5.4x4.8x4=104cu/in) -roughly Holley Blue sized, 1.7kg and I reckon small enough to mount it under the the right inner fender -under the battery using the tray's existing fasteners on a bracket that I'll make. (I do whatever I can to avoid drilling holes.)
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2012, 03:47 PM
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Do you have any space in front of the radiator support panel?

If you don't have a booster that is 9" or bigger the cut off sensor will keep the motor going all the time.

These units are sold locally under COMP CAMS brand, and are made in the US most others that I looked at are Chinese copies.
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  #37  
Old 01-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Not really. I have a radiator overflow bottle on the right, and the water injection pump and it's controller on the left.
Under the battery tray is also closer to the booster.

Not sure what you mean by the pump running constantly with a less than a 9" booster.. Why should it's size matter? I understand a smaller volume booster will store less vacuum and will cause the pump to "top it up" more often, however, the switch will shut the pump off when the vacuum drops to 18-22in/hg -which will happen quickly.
Besides, my 8" booster is a dual diaphram and about the same sq/in as an oe 11".
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Last edited by BlackoutSteve; 01-07-2012 at 06:07 PM..
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  #38  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:22 PM
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I breifly fitted one of the comp cam units which i purchased from summit. funnily enough it didnt firm up the brakes when the booster had a hole in it. was pretty easy to install, noise was inaudible over the engine. It did vibrate a bit and ideally you may want some sort of backing plate. Steve is correct and it shuts off as soon as vacuum level is reached
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackoutsteve View Post
No pissing match.. Just thought you were unaware on what PV was required and offered Holley's info for you.
I'd be interested to know that carb shop's reasoning.. New to me.
Kool


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  #40  
Old 02-07-2012, 03:01 PM
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Was speaking with a good mate of mine on friday night.
His credentials - he's a high performance mechanic at one of the best known hi-po workshops up here,he has a basic but stout 360 valiant charger that has gone 12.2 aspirated and 11.1 with a 125 shot and he used to work for me for a while so I know him well.
He reckons 10" minimum for the vac to work the brakes to some sort of acceptability.
He also cited an example of inadequate to me.A 308 commodore he built (I know the car-it's a whole lot more engine than what the owner really needs - 13:1 and a heap of timing pulled out to make it street usable on pump fuel - you know the deal)it pulls only 7" and you only get 1 application.After that there's no assist for a while.
Anyway,just relevant info that makes me wonder if the vac pump (when it arrives)will solve my dilemma.
Will keep you all informed.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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Personally Ken, I'm thinking you may need to also increase the size of your booster.. 7" diameter, even though it's a dual diaphram, isn't real big.
I don't know what sized calipers' pistons, master's bore diameter and the original diameter of the OE booster you had, but with your low vacuum, I wouldn't be surprised.

With your friend, He's right in most cases where 10in/hg may be fine. I have less, and for me, it's fine as well -providing I've coasted and built up some vacuum above the amount that it idles at.
If I'm in stop-go traffic and I use up any stored vacuum from prior throttle-off coasting, my pedal becomes hard and I have to really stand on it to pull up quickly and I don't like that.
Maybe that is what your friend considers "some sort of acceptability"..
For my RWC cert, I passed the brake test on the first attempt with their brake test G-meter and pedal pressure pad with no problem at all.. However, I don't consider my brakes acceptable in all situations which is why I'm fitting a pump. (..and I also want to swap the master to the original bore diameter, which will give my pedal the right amount of "feel" and a shorter throw as designed/intended.)

Also, I spoke with MBM about my pedal not returning fully and how I figured out that it was the booster. I always thought boosters should return "home" after each application regardless, and I still believe that to be correct, however, when talking to the guy at MBM who asked me what my vacuum at idle was, he said "Well, there's you're problem".. Maybe he was just passing the blame to something other than his product, we'll see, but everywhere you look regarding information on power brakes. ..18 in/hg is what you need and we don't have it.
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Last edited by BlackoutSteve; 02-07-2012 at 07:42 PM..
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2012, 07:38 PM
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My Ford idles around 6". Needless to say the brakes are average at best. If I haven't built up vacuum by coasting on a closed throttle they can be scary. I only got one useful application but the addition of a canister gives me another couple. You learn not to release the pedal right off so as not to release vacuum when you know another application is coming.

Will be watching this result with interest as I only knew of one electric kit and it was quite pricey.
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2012, 08:30 PM
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I have a chrome vac cannister which I also fitted that I obviously no longer need. yell out if someone wants it at a good price.
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  #44  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:19 PM
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hi steve i do run the ssbrakes one you are thinking of and works very well noise you wont hear it over engine noise its just what has to be done and it works well. it is noisy if you turn the key on and pump the pedal but in the car with engine on carnt hear it
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  #45  
Old 21-07-2012, 04:27 PM
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The Hella vacuum pump has arrived and it's only a bit taller than a Holley blue, as you can see.. So, it's really a lot smaller compared to the other types.
These pumps are oe on hybrid and electric cars, that still require vacuum for brakes, a/c and whatever else. The only mod I need to make to it is swapping the Metripack (?) connector with a Weatherpack.. Easy..



I'll fit it with a vacuum storage tank as well, but instead of buying one of the camshaft companies', which are typically ~5" dia x ~7" long, which will make the assembly even larger, I'm thinking about using some similar diameter PVC plumber's pipe with a screw-on cap/s on the end (and o-rings if i have to) and actually mount the pump inside it, -with a vent for the pump to "exhale', obviously..
This way, it's really just taking up room for a tank and it will also remain protected from water and road debris as it is being mounted externally -under the battery, and using the two radiator support to inner fender bolts..
That's what's in my head anyway..
More pics will come.
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