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  #46  
Old 17-06-2011, 10:48 AM
BuickGSX455 BuickGSX455 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frank351 View Post
Well OK , but we are talking 30s when the first side valve/flatheads came out.
Lucky I didn't add the bit where fletch said it took Chevys 20 years to catch up ... oh wait ... d'oh !

Putting my flame suit on ...

Cheers,
Frank.
Yeah, all correct, but it was during this time of flatheads and sidevalves that Buick had its 320ci 165Hp overhead valve straight 8, streets ahead and arguably the for-runner of every modern OHV engine.
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  #47  
Old 17-06-2011, 12:06 PM
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Frank351 Frank351 is offline
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OK , I'll buy that the Buick had the right OHV head design over the flathead valve-in-block, but Ford were the first to produce the V8 monobloc casting (which engineers said couldn't be done ) and never looked back with the V8. GM saw the light and also went with the V8.

Now Ford have OHC V8s but GM still have pushrod V8s.

Wait ... I have 2 Fords and now a Chevy .... That's why I love this board ! All US muscle cars are created equal , except some are more equal than others.

Good fun ! and learning new stuff !

Cheers,
Frank.
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  #48  
Old 17-06-2011, 12:18 PM
BuickGSX455 BuickGSX455 is offline
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ouch man!
Don't hate a brotha cuz he got a newer ride than you.
I built my car for me and I know it doesn't fit everyone's taste but the bottom line is I built it for me and I love it.
It's damn near perfect all a rounder power,torque, drivability.
It has the Pontiac badge isn't the ol water downed century from the early 90s
Sorry, no hate intended but the gen 4 trans-ams in stock trim were at best 285Hp, most commonly fitted with the 3.8l Buick V6 and getting very close to being two seater sportscars or worse a 3 door hatchback.
The late '70's, '80's and '90's were a pretty sad time for Muscle Cars barring very few exceptions.

Now with a turbo 383, you have someting very different and worthy of some attention. I don't hate your ride but from the factory it probably wasn't a muscle car and the '90's Century certainly wasn't, not by a very long way.

If your car was born with a turbo 383 then it would be one of the greatest Muscle Cars of the modern era.
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  #49  
Old 17-06-2011, 12:33 PM
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Frank351 Frank351 is offline
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Never even heard of the turbo 383 in a Trans-Am !

Now that would be something.

Yes, the 90s were pretty sad for muscle cars. Some of the 5.0 Mustangs weren't bad, but that's why my DD is a 95 BMW M3.
286 HP from only 3.0 litres not too shabby even today.

Cheers.
Frank.
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  #50  
Old 17-06-2011, 01:44 PM
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66FAIRLANE 66FAIRLANE is offline
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Might as well have a couple of cents worth in this.

It depends on your definition of 'muscle car'. Some of the US forums I am a member of have debated this (briefly) and it seemed that the overwhelming majority say that 'muscle car' was term coined in the 60's and strictly applied to mid size offerings stuffed with big blocks although it has morphed far from that these days. I think a lot of people credit Pontiac for starting this trend.
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  #51  
Old 17-06-2011, 02:02 PM
BuickGSX455 BuickGSX455 is offline
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Originally Posted by 66FAIRLANE View Post
Might as well have a couple of cents worth in this.

It depends on your definition of 'muscle car'. Some of the US forums I am a member of have debated this (briefly) and it seemed that the overwhelming majority say that 'muscle car' was term coined in the 60's and strictly applied to mid size offerings stuffed with big blocks although it has morphed far from that these days. I think a lot of people credit Pontiac for starting this trend.
Pontiac didn't start the trend though, they were the first to make it truly successful.
The term "Muscle Car" doesn't appear anywhere until the 70's.
In the '60s, what we now call Muscle cars were "In cars" or "Super cars"
I have a Buick internal marketing memo written in late '69 where the GSX designers want to enter the "In car" market. They make reference to having the neccessary muscle but nowhere do they mention "Muscle car".

They describe the entire youth performance market as the " In Car/Performance car/Supercar" market.
Now Buick may have been off the pace somewhat but you would think that the marketing guys would know the language of the day.
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  #52  
Old 17-06-2011, 06:06 PM
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70mach1 70mach1 is offline
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GTO for me-historically from almost every source-it is the original muscle car.
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  #53  
Old 17-06-2011, 06:21 PM
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Frank351 Frank351 is offline
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hmmm ... Well supercars is a term now used for Lambos, Ferraris etc.
In those days they were sports cars I suppose.

According to Jim Wangers himself , it all started in post-war US in the 50s and 60s as youth wanted to go fast.

Cheers,
Frank.
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