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Old 02-08-2018, 11:31 AM
Shan Shan is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: VIC
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Cooling problem....

Done to death...I know.

Here is the picture...

350 Chev - mild.
Fitech injection - still needs some tuning, but seems to be working fine.
Distributor is not locked out - so fitech is not managing the timing. Timing seems ok though. Not advancing.
Massive alum radiator. Made in USA by Entropy Radiators. 4 Row with twin thermos, matched shroud - meant for big blocks.
Thermos managed by dakota digital control - all running seperately on it's own digital temp sender (on radiator inlet pipe). Seems to be working fine.
New Edelbrock victor water pump
New high flow thermostat.
Radiator overflow fitted
Bottom radiator hose has the "spring" to stop hose collapse.

Temp Gauge is a new VDO unit and is connected on on separate sender to radiator thermos. Seems to be operating properly. Definitely going over 100 degrees - gets up to 110 before coming back down to high 90's at certain speeds.

I know it def overheating cause thermos are on different circuit and they kick in frequently.

So...

Basically new radiator, water pump, twin thermos, thermostat, computer controlled injection - still overheating.

Seemed to be happening on longer drives - not short trips. Longer the drive - more erratic the temps get.

Freeway driving is fine. More the stop/start where I get the issue.

A/C condenser is in front of the radiator, as is a small external transmission cooler.

I am wondering if the AC condenser and transmission cooler are making it hard to get air through the radiator??

I can't work it out.

Either that or radiator is maybe too big? High flow water pump and thermostat should compensate for that though?

Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2018, 02:49 PM
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pgp66 pgp66 is offline
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Name: Paul
See if you know anyone with one of the handheld infrared temperature guns, point it at the top tank, bottom tank, front of motor, back of motor, thermostat housing, see what the differences are, that will give you an idea if its maybe pumping the water around too fast and not extracting the heat from the engine, or if its hot all over just not getting enough air.
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1966 Pontiac LeMans convertible, Martinique Bronze and black top, black interior, 15x7 & 15x8 Rallye 2's, M/T Sportsman ST's 235/255, 464 Poncho, 6X-8 heads, RAIV cam, Quadrajet, ACC Street Bandit 9.6 lockup convertor, TH200R4, 3.55 Eaton Posi.
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:25 PM
69JavelinMan 69JavelinMan is offline
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Name: Darren
Check the thermostat is working correctly, pot of water on the stove with a thermometer in it, make sure it opens and closes, what temperature range is it?

What temperature/temperatues are the thermos set at, are they just on at one temperature or do you have high/low capability. Fans should probably run all the time in stop start traffic. Fan on/off temperature should be higher than the thermostat opening point.

Incorrect ignition timing can generate additional heat, so make sure that is right.

Also check temperature gauge against Fitech hand held, I'm assuming that has a coolant temperature sensor in the system.
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2018, 07:04 PM
Geoff 4 Geoff 4 is offline
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Name: Geoff
The elec fans are not helping. Elec fans evolved for use on modern cars with 195* or higher stats. Our old bangers came with 180* stats for moderate climates. There is not an elec fan[s] made that can pull air like a 19.5", 7 blade clutch fan, which can pull 6000+ cfm. Never seen an elec fan[s] come anywhere close to that.

I have the same Edel Victor pump that you have. I recently changed my 160 stat to a 180 because the engine ran too cool. Also have a factory 19.5" clutch fan & shroud. I have two bath towels sewn together, which I chuck over the mudguards to protect from scratching the paint when I work on the car. I can stand 4 feet in front of the grill, engine idling @ 700 rpm, & throw the towels at the grill. The pull of the air pulls the towels into the grill....& holds them there. My engine actually cools down at idle.

The pancake arrangement of the shroud used by most elec fans acts as a baffle at freeway speeds.

Two more things that will help. Plenty of timing at idle, 25-30*. Engine will run cooler. Small water pump pulley to turn pump faster, should be over driven 10-30%.

More info: www.stewartcomponents.com
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:15 PM
69JavelinMan 69JavelinMan is offline
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I have seen people cut flaps into the flat sheet metal thermo fan shrouds to allow more airflow at highway speeds.

I found that adding Mondeo thermo fans instead of a 5 blade factory fixed fan solved my overheating issues at the strip. I’m running a Holley Sniper and use that to control the fans.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:44 PM
Pencil Pencil is offline
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What thermos are they? What temp thermostat?
Can you post a picture of the shroud?
If it is ok on the freeway / highway it sounds like airflow issues.
Regards Richard
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:08 AM
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stinga stinga is offline
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Try disconnecting the Dakota sender wire so the fans run all the time. Go for a drive and see what happens. If its ok with fans running all the time it may be Dakota programming issue.

I had the wrong model Dakota sender in which made the temps Dakota thought it was out of whack.

Al
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:41 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Hi Guys,

Sorry been offline. Thanks for the comments. I'll get some info and pics together and come back to you. Will apply some of the logic mentioned in posts first though.

Let you know how it goes.
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  #9  
Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM
Shan Shan is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2017
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My car is in a shop getting rust sorted out - so have not had access to it, but been doing some research based on all the helpful comments.

Geoff - you mention overdrive pulley arrangement? This seems like a technically sound idea and worth doing. Did you use the products from March or is there a cheaper option? March kit ain't cheap - even for just the high water flow overdrive crank/waterpump pulley arrangement.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...6140/overview/
Any cheaper way of achieving the same thing?

I also agree - 7 blade clutch fan pulls a lot of air, and traditional cooling is very, very effective, but my car already had a thermo arrangement fitted, so thought I would continue down that path as it seemed the easier one to take. I added beefier radiator and fan arrangement thinking it would cover my bases. Clearly not the case.

As for the other comments - the radiator and fans I am running with is this arrangement (pic attached).
i said 4 row earlier - was typo - mine is 2 row - Entropy Radiator 1" rows. 2 x fans pulling 1500cfm per fan. is american made, not rubbish and is supposed to be designed to be able to cool BB engines. It is a big unit....larger dimensions than standard copper BB 4 row anyway.

The car ran fine on the freeway btw - engine temps stayed well within acceptable levels. So even if shroud is acting as a baffle at speed - car is cooling ok. So I am thinking I likely have more general airflow and maybe waterflow issue.

Also does not overheat at idle in my garage - only goes over under normal driving conditions.

The dakota controller is kicking in fine - I am confident it is operating as it should. I ordered the dakota compatible sender as well. One fan kicks in at around 97 degrees. Then the second kicks in a little after that one. They are set independently, which is why I bought dakota controller. Did not want both fans going at same time, all the time - 'cause I hate the noise.

For the record - I have a 180 degree high flow thermostat (was brand new). Did not test it, but it does open, because engine heats up and the temp drops again when t-stat opens. Temp gauge visibly demonstrates that.

I am running digital vdo gauge on one sender and the dakota arrangement on another. given fans are kicking at the temps I set on dakota controller, and the VDO gauge is matching those temps - I think everything is showing accurate measurements.

Sooo.....

I'll check timing (again)
I think I'll try the water pump overdrive. Hopefully a cheaper option than march kit out there?

If that fails - then I may need to look at airflow options and fans.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Entropy radiator 1 inch rows.JPG (23.0 KB, 5 views)
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  #10  
Old Yesterday, 07:42 PM
Geoff 4 Geoff 4 is offline
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Name: Geoff
Shan,
I am using a pressed steel factory type WP pulley. My engine is a 455 Pontiac. I recently switched from a 160 to a 180 stat because it was running too cool!

The problem with March & some of those companies with their bullch*t advertising of more HP with their pulley systems [ from using underdiven accessory pulleys ] is that they don't tell you about the overheating from their underdriven WP pulley. You find THAT out after you had handed over your hard earned cash....

Not sure what is available for your engine, but I have over the years, gone to the wreckers & bought pulleys from other brands & made my own pulley[s] by cutting/welding to make one pulley out of two.

Something to think about: at 3000 rpm on the freeway, the engine produces twice as many heat [ power ] strokes as it does at half that speed, 1500 rpm. But there there is still only the same radiator area & coolant volume to dissipate the extra heat...
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