WANTED 67-69 BB Cam or Chevelle

[camaro_1967rs]

After something MUSCLE of course, and something with Big Block in it and it has to be in good condition.

Dont want any rust cars or paint with crows feet or humidity bubbles in it.

You can send pics to comtech@netspace.net.au

[rs/ss 396]

After something MUSCLE of course, and something with Big Block in it and it has to be in good condition.

Dont want any rust cars or paint with crows feet or humidity bubbles in it.

You can send pics to comtech@netspace.net.au

Check out the Unique car magazine, there is a 68? 396 RS/SS for about $39000, or there abouts that looks pretty good

[EAT-30T]

Buy my 69 Paul...

put whatever you want in it LOL

[EAT-30T]

yeah seriously I'd sell it ;)

[rodent]

$30k, needs trim, all panels original, only a few spots of rust,396 BB, th400.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/rodent4/67_chev-9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/rodent4/67_chev-3.jpg

[camaro_1967rs]

yeah seriously I'd sell it ;)

THANKS FOR HE CARROT:eek:

GUESS WHAT STOPPED THE SALE ON THE CAMERO:( GOT 75K FOR IT BUT THE FAMILY DID NOT WANT ME TO SELL IT, SADLY FOR THE NEW OWNER I WILL REFUND THE DEPOSIT.

[AUSCAMARO]

Daymn, that sux for the other guy but rocks for you :)

[TUFF68]

you have a smart family, be thankfull to them :)

if your after a muscle car with a big block why not just put a big block in your 67 ?? you already have the car, and a beautiful car it is

[camaro_1967rs]

you have a smart family, be thankfull to them :)

if your after a muscle car with a big block why not just put a big block in your 67

Yes I underestimated what they thought about the car, my wife said "do what you think is right" when I asked what I should do about the car! I didnt consult the kids thought, and the young fella was distraught. I then asked my friends and others for their honest thoughts and their replies were dont sell it. I would have regretted it for a long time.

Re the big block, its just the hurdle of another engine change that I have to get over, I would only have to change the extractors, and booster size, some engine mounts, not to sure about the trans x member. If I was to do it the engine would have to be a monster; 600 plus so that means about 15k. The small block I have at the moment is between mild and wild, and on the slide graphs good for 10.7 - 11.4 on the 1/4 given its power to weight ratios.

[camaro_1967rs]

Daymn, that sux for the other guy but rocks for you :)

He was really good about it, and left the door open that if I decided to sell it next year he will purchase it.

Its funny we all have common people we know and many of these people tried to talk him out of it saying my car is only worth 65k, it seems that most people into Camaros at the moment put value on wether its a big block or small block not the quality of workmanship or differences gone into the buildup.

To me a standard Camaro with some white stripes over the bonnet and a 502 In my mind does not constitute a 70k car, but this is what a lot of people are thinking at the moment, and I dont understand it they are saying for a car to worth big bucks it has to be a big block.

[chevelle]

Hello, nice car, i wouldnt of sold it either for that price. For your last comment on a plain coupe with a 502 is not worth 70k, well i disagree, its what the car has had done to it that gives it price. In S.A. a plain 68 coupe with a 572 in it, car has had a nut and bolt resto and the owner has been offered 110k for it, and didnt sell it.
At the end of the day your car is only an RS which is the same as a standard coupe which has added hideaway lights and backup lights. It aint a true muscle car.
I have owned a true matching number 68 SS camaro, matching number 350 4 speed, 12 bolt car back in 1991 and currently have a 1970 SS chevelle 402/4 speed with build sheet as proof of what the car is. I own also a 1 owner 1968 RS, window sticker, build sheet, books with protectoplate, matching numbers 327/275 horse, auto, been in storage since 1983, but it aint no musclecar, if it had the SS option with matching numbers engine or build sheet then i would say it was a musclecar.
A true muscle car in the states is what is called nameplate cars, in which the camaro SS, RS/SS, Z/28 (yenkos, ZL1's and so on) are.
I have been to the states over 10 times and have seen what they call a true nameplate car, the only problem they cant prove it cause they have no build sheet and the original motor has gone, in which the vin number of the car is stamped on the engine pad which also has the engine suffix code, which the nameplate cars run unique codes. So that leaves a big ? to what they have and it happens here where guys advertise there car as a true SS, RS/SS or Z/28 and have no proof that it is a nameplate car.
Anyway, to all the people looking to buy a muscle car do your homework cause the guys in the states selling the cars most of them dont know what there on about, there just guys after a quick dollar who are just buying and selling. I have seen it all on my trips there and also here in Oz.
Anyway, your car is still a very nice car and is worth more than what you been offered, i think people should go and start pricing what it costs to do these cars up, let alone the time you spend on it.

[J.J.]

who cares if it is matching numbers or not. a nameplate car sounds like a crock to me. you say his car ain't a true muscle car, well you are so so wrong. my car isn't matching numbers, so what, it is muscle though. Any 1st gen Camaro is muscle.

[WILD68]

who cares if it is matching numbers or not. a nameplate car sounds like a crock to me. you say his car ain't a true muscle car, well you are so so wrong. my car isn't matching numbers, so what, it is muscle though. Any 1st gen Camaro is muscle.

i agree even if a 68 was a six and it had a 502 in it i would still call it muscle.. how much it is worth would be determined by build quality and numbers matching etc etc...:confused:

[camaro_1967rs]

I can see that I have drawn out the two different sides of car building/restoration:
Original Restoration
Custom RestorationPersonally i am not into matching numbers or chasing this, in an ideal world it would be nice to have, but then how accurate are matching numbers? I know several concours cars that say they are matching numbers and I personally know the blocks were decked and re stamped with original numbers, like wise I also know of matching number cars where tags have been removed and put on a better body.

Personally I like Custom, which provides a CANVAS to show the world part of your personality, and that is how i have approached my RS Camaro.

Sorry But I dissagree with you on the importance (or lack of importance that you say the RS has) of the RS Model.

My original question was:
Why does an average standard camaro (not elite restored or treated with great craftsmanship like several peoples projects on this great forum) with white stripes and deluxe interior, with a 502/454 mean its worth 10-20k more than an RS or SS or RS/SS? I have experienced this recently from several people that own Camaros with when making comparissons to my car. I deliberatly did not follow the trend of big blocks when I saw it happening 4 years ago in the states, I had a feeling that it was going to take off here and it has. I dont see why a big block car with an average quality build up should be worth more than a better quality Small Block build up. This is what the market is saying amongst many people at the moment. As of last week my engine bay alone (engine, alloy work, braided lines, radiator) owes me over 30k.

Personally I believe my car is worth around 80-85k not that I would get it in this current market, but I have prooved that it would fetch 75k.

Valid comments J.J and Wild68.

[EAT-30T]

Two words come to mind for me when valuing these cars. BUILD QUALITY I totally agree with you Paul mate. :)

I'm going to be selling mine shortly after completion and I'm shooting for your before mentioned price range.... Good to hear its an achievable figure!! :)

[69camaro]

As of last week my engine bay alone (engine, alloy work, braided lines, radiator) owes me over 30k.

Paul, some of the figures on your car you've mentioned have me intrigued....
Do you do any of the work yourself?
When counting the cost of parts are you only counting what's in your engine bay currently or are you counting everything thats been in your engine bay since you bought the car?

As to the 'value' of your car and others', my thoughts are that it all comes back to the most basic economics. Something is only 'worth' what another is willing to pay for it (illustrated by the recent losses in percieved value of stock markets). So if the market as you say is chasing Big block cars then they are probably going to command a higher price.

Personally I agree with what a few others have mentioned and that is that build quality should be the determining factor in a cars value.

The problem with quality though is it is subjective. Everyone has different oppinions and standards when it comes to cars I think.

[chevelle]

Well, i am just going on with the amount of cars i have imported over the years, what is a true muscle car and what isnt to collectors and buyers in the U.S. If my one owner 68 RS was an RS/SS car, the cars value would be at least 20k to 30k more as was told to me when the car was valued in the states. Why because it would be a nameplate car which is more desirable to collectors, it would have either the 350/295hp or 396/325hp which was only available in the SS and RS/SS cars, you could not order these engines on base or RS camaros. The rear end would also be a 12 bolt. You can still call your RS a muscle car, your choice, but at the end of the day a true muscle car is what is called a nameplate car.
Go to a book store and look at books called Muscle Cars and see what cars they show and then tell me what americans call Muscle Cars. Hey its not my opinion on what is a true muscle car its what the americans call a true muscle car and that is mainly nameplate cars.

Let me put it this way, a HQ holden base coupe V8 (standard V8 camaro), LS monaro (RS camaro) GTS coupe (SS camaro) The GTS and SS is whats pulling in the higher dollar over a base coupe in equal condition as they are nameplate cars if talking original or restored condition. Modified cars the skys the limit. Anyway if you think your car being an RS has significant importance well then for you it does. It is custom, yes, but its worth the dollars. Im not saying that it isnt worth the money as what a nameplate car is worth, its worth probably more, its worth its money due to time/effort/dollars/quality and what the car is and what somebody is willing to pay. I agree with you that just because someone has slapped a big block into a base camaro and the quality isnt as good as yours doesnt mean its worth more than yours. If its a genuine Big Block nameplate car then prices do start to get close to what you have been offered even in unrestored condition. A nameplate car to be worth money it has to be either completely original or restored back to as it left the factory or better. Thats why the americans go crazy over casting dates/codes when restoring their nameplate cars, its all about making sure the casting dates/codes match. Its a different thing from a custom car to a restored nameplate car.

Its fine that people dont care if its not numbers matching or its a six cylinder car, but i allways get guys chasing nameplate cars, i get it all the time with what i sell, Aussie or American cars, they ask is it a SS, GTS, GT, R/T, Z/28 and so on, so people out there do care and some that dont. I have people who wont buy a camaro because it was originally a six cylinder car, the car is exactly the same as a V8 car barr the vin number is a six cylinder vin, but no it has to be a V8 car and a nameplate, thats their choice. The people looking for american name plate cars dont want to pay the dollars for a true name plate muscle car and the thing is you aint getting one if you aint prepared to pay the dollars, thats why they fetch a higher price. A non nameplate car that has been modified is going to be worth what someone wants to pay or what dollar amount you want.

As for Big Block cars, well they have been in high demand in the U.S. from the late 80s when muscle cars started to rise in price and popularity being with any make and model car. In South Australia we have a lot of big block powered camaros since the mid to late 80s, from 9 to 10 sec cars, modified to original. The big block trend has been around a while. There even used to be jeff hoskins tuff white 9 sec 69 camaro from Vic before he destroyed it in a high speed run.
As for the camaro i mentioned in previous posting with the 572, the car is in outstanding condition and aint a nameplate car, but yes he has been offered that kind of money, i agree its what people want to pay for a particular car and yes build quality is a major factor. I personally reckon the car is worth the money, i have seen the car from import stage to finished product when it had a small block in it, then sold to current owner who installed the GM crate 572.
Tell that to the americans that sell these cars as i have seen some camaros and other car makes at shows/swap meets in the states that they claim as top notch restos and myself and friends just shake our heads when we see the quality of work done and the dollars they ask. I have met the guys that restore/build cars for classic industries and original parts group in the states and they have shown me cars that people have bought at these big auction shows which look pretty from the outside but they end up at his shop requiring a full resto to be done as the car was a complete rush job for the sole purpose to be taken to the classic car auctions to sell. Mind you some of these guys take between 10 to 20 cars that they have done rush jobs on there to sell at the auctions. Ive just come back from my latest U.S. trip and things are still the same, nothings changed, same as it was when i first was there in 92. But finding a genuine nameplate car is hard if you dont want to pay the dollars. Its like buying a genuine aussie GT/GTS/GTR/RT

I currently have 8 1st generation camaros from stock to custom in my collection, from a 69 pro street 582 cube camaro, to matching numbers nameplate and not and im just posting the view of what americans call true muscle cars. Go out and buy australian muscle car magazine, they show a majority of 97% nameplate muscle cars in their magazine so they also go on the same meaning of what is a true muscle car. I know how hard it is to buy numbers matching nameplate cars in the states and the dollars they ask is up there. If name plate cars are a crock as JJ says thats fine, but i dont see a genuine XY K code falcon or a south african 351 XY fairmont GT look in the same price range as a genuine XY GT restored or not. What about a base LC torana coupe and a GTR in the same condition, the GTR is worth more i should think. It must be a crock then JJ about nameplate cars. If JJ's car is a base coupe and non matching numbers well i agree with JJ who cares, but the point im getting across is if its a nameplate car with matching numbers you would find it will draw a higher dollar than a matching number base camaro with both cars in the same condition.

Everyone has a different opinion on what is and what isnt a true muscle car, numbers matching or custom the main thing is just enjoy what you have, as stated before your RS is worth more than what you have been offered, its a very nice car.

[TUFF68]

My original question was:
Why does an average standard camaro (not elite restored or treated with great craftsmanship like several peoples projects on this great forum) with white stripes and deluxe interior, with a 502/454 mean its worth 10-20k more than an RS or SS or RS/SS? I have experienced this recently from several people that own Camaros with when making comparissons to my car. I deliberatly did not follow the trend of big blocks when I saw it happening 4 years ago in the states, I had a feeling that it was going to take off here and it has. I dont see why a big block car with an average quality build up should be worth more than a better quality Small Block build up. This is what the market is saying amongst many people at the moment. As of last week my engine bay alone (engine, alloy work, braided lines, radiator) owes me over 30k.

I wont get into the debate about what is or is'nt a true muscle car, but a possible answer to your original question above could be the cost of converting a SB car to a BB car. Having recently done this to my car and all the things that go with the swap such as new exhaust system, upgraded fuel system, different converter, some cases stronger gearbox, upgraded cooling system and in my case upgrade to a disc brake front end, the value of my engine bay is probably in the same ball park as yours. But at the end of the day it all comes down to the buyer's wants and needs. If a buyer is only in the market for a BB car they probably dont mind paying the 10-20k more for the average standard camaro that already has a BB in it than a better quality built SB RS or SS or RS/SS as it will cost them a lot more to do the swap themselves.

Me personally though, i agree with you about the build quality of a car should have a lot to do with the value of a car when making comparissons. I've looked closely at the photo's of your car on this forum and from what i can see the build quality is outstanding and making comparissons to my average standard plain jane camaro with white stripes and a BB it is certainly not worth 10-20k more than your car

[camaro_1967rs]

I've looked closely at the photo's of your car on this forum and from what i can see the build quality is outstanding and making comparissons to my average standard plain jane camaro with white stripes and a BB it is certainly not worth 10-20k more than your car

Tuff68 I had no intention of making a comparisson to your build up, only to some local cars that I know of.

Yes I can see your point about what you have to go through to install a bb, I have actually done all of that and more for the sb, if I were to upgrade it would simply be a 7" booster, mounts and extractors.

Cars are a purely subjective thing, and whilst there are emotions involved its hard to be objective. At the end of the day as you said if the byer is there and knows what they want, then that is all that matters.

[camaro_1967rs]

Paul, some of the figures on your car you've mentioned have me intrigued....
Do you do any of the work yourself?
When counting the cost of parts are you only counting what's in your engine bay currently or are you counting everything thats been in your engine bay since you bought the car?



No just what I have spent so far to get the sbc to its present stage.

I dont have much mechanical or body work skill, mainly assembly and wiring skill, so most of the work is farmed out that I cant do.

Engine cost $4500
Had to strip and rebuild due to bad build up $8500
Holley 750 Ultra HP $900
BG 850 DP $850
Super victor manifold $480
Hooker Competition headers + ceramic coatings $1450
Alloy work; header tank, custom power steering and oil catch tank, + cowl induction setup around $2600
Radiator and fan $1000
Distributor MSD PRO Billet and MSD 6 around $1200
Oil cooler for engine, custom $600
Disk brake front end CPP around $1800
New billet door motors; $500
Fuel system $3000
Braided fittings $2000
Steering pump $400
100 amp alt $200
Front end rebuild $2500 with parts

Total $32,480

Blew a lot of money on puchasing the engine, should have purchased a merlin or world crate motor, with the benifit of hind sight. Another area of development cost was the cooling due to the siamese bores of the 406 mixing of high compression.



Other costs:
9", detroit locker, moser 31 spline axles, $5500
Custom leaf springs 5 leaf and set $500
Shortened thickwall tail shaft circa $350
Rebuilt TH400, strengthened, and modified internals with 3500 stall $3200
Rear disk brakes $1200

All the bolt on OER products i.e. trim, knobs, bright work, bumpers, grill and new doors, glass, console $10,000

Total $20,750

So there you have it around $53k before paint, wheel changes, and many other things not even costed or taken into account the purchase price.

[Nev68]

No just what I have spent so far to get the sbc to its present stage.

I dont have much mechanical or body work skill, mainly assembly and wiring skill, so most of the work is farmed out that I cant do.

Engine cost $4500
Had to strip and rebuild due to bad build up $8500
Holley 750 Ultra HP $900
BG 850 DP $850
Super victor manifold $480
Hooker Competition headers + ceramic coatings $1450
Alloy work; header tank, custom power steering and oil catch tank, + cowl induction setup around $2600
Radiator and fan $1000
Distributor MSD PRO Billet and MSD 6 around $1200
Oil cooler for engine, custom $600
Disk brake front end CPP around $1800
New billet door motors; $500
Fuel system $3000
Braided fittings $2000
Steering pump $400
100 amp alt $200
Front end rebuild $2500 with parts

Total $32,480

Blew a lot of money on puchasing the engine, should have purchased a merlin or world crate motor, with the benifit of hind sight. Another area of development cost was the cooling due to the siamese bores of the 406 mixing of high compression.



Other costs:
9", detroit locker, moser 31 spline axles, $5500
Custom leaf springs 5 leaf and set $500
Shortened thickwall tail shaft circa $350
Rebuilt TH400, strengthened, and modified internals with 3500 stall $3200
Rear disk brakes $1200

All the bolt on OER products i.e. trim, knobs, bright work, bumpers, grill and new doors, glass, console $10,000

Total $20,750

So there you have it around $53k before paint, wheel changes, and many other things not even costed or taken into account the purchase price.

Your a brave man going back and checking the numbers ($$$$)
I've spent it and now I'll just try to enjoy it. (I'll never recoup the cost in actual cash)
Oh, and I like to remember the saying "never discuss the "real" cost of parts in fornt of a man's wife":D

Rgds,
Nev

Rgds,
Nev

[Nev68]

No just what I have spent so far to get the sbc to its present stage.

I dont have much mechanical or body work skill, mainly assembly and wiring skill, so most of the work is farmed out that I cant do.

Engine cost $4500
Had to strip and rebuild due to bad build up $8500
Holley 750 Ultra HP $900
BG 850 DP $850
Super victor manifold $480
Hooker Competition headers + ceramic coatings $1450
Alloy work; header tank, custom power steering and oil catch tank, + cowl induction setup around $2600
Radiator and fan $1000
Distributor MSD PRO Billet and MSD 6 around $1200
Oil cooler for engine, custom $600
Disk brake front end CPP around $1800
New billet door motors; $500
Fuel system $3000
Braided fittings $2000
Steering pump $400
100 amp alt $200
Front end rebuild $2500 with parts

Total $32,480

Blew a lot of money on puchasing the engine, should have purchased a merlin or world crate motor, with the benifit of hind sight. Another area of development cost was the cooling due to the siamese bores of the 406 mixing of high compression.



Other costs:
9", detroit locker, moser 31 spline axles, $5500
Custom leaf springs 5 leaf and set $500
Shortened thickwall tail shaft circa $350
Rebuilt TH400, strengthened, and modified internals with 3500 stall $3200
Rear disk brakes $1200

All the bolt on OER products i.e. trim, knobs, bright work, bumpers, grill and new doors, glass, console $10,000

Total $20,750

So there you have it around $53k before paint, wheel changes, and many other things not even costed or taken into account the purchase price.

Your a brave man going back and checking the numbers ($$$$)
I've spent it and now I'll just try to enjoy it. (I'll never recoup the cost in actual cash)
Oh, and I like to remember the saying "never discuss the "real" cost of parts in front of a man's wife":D

Rgds,
Nev

Rgds,
Nev

[camaro_1967rs]

Oh, and I like to remember the saying "never discuss the "real" cost of parts in front of a man's wife":D


its a bit like "what happens on tour stays on tour!" I agree with your comments Nev.

I have allways had a desire to learn how to build an engine for myself however I have just never had the right mentors around for this to happen, likewise with the body side of things.

This is by far the most expensive project that I have ever had to undertake. I am now finally enjoying the car, the new fuel system if finally finished we picked up another 5 RWKW due to poor performances of the previous system and the car does not cook the fuel any more.

My next big project with the car is to update the interior with the original color; red on red but have opted to change the whole interior to deluxe. Still thinking leaving the headlining and carpet black though.

[Nev68]

My next big project with the car is to update the interior with the original color; red on red but have opted to change the whole interior to deluxe. Still thinking leaving the headlining and carpet black though.[/QUOTE]

I think leaving the black headliner and carpet should look OK.
The full red-on-red can be a bit over the top, but if originality is what you are after then maybe it needs to be all red

Rgds,
Nev

[67cammy]

My next big project with the car is to update the interior with the original color; red on red but have opted to change the whole interior to deluxe. Still thinking leaving the headlining and carpet black though.

Id definiteley leave them black. With red paint and red on red interior it would be too much IMO.

[chevelle]

Red on Red looks good, depends on shade of red of interior, Used to have an original red on red 67 camaro, everything was red, looked good.

[anychevy]

red on red but have opted to change the whole interior to deluxe. Still thinking leaving the headlining and carpet black though.
RED on RED looks good IMO
Don't know about the black carpet and headliner though :confused:

[camaro_1967rs]

RED on RED looks good IMO
Don't know about the black carpet and headliner though :confused:

Things have changed slightly since this posting; I have purchased a new 67 deluxe red on red interior including the carpet.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x102/bucketofbubbles_detailing/DSC_4903.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x102/bucketofbubbles_detailing/DSC_4912.jpg

I am leaving the headliner at this stage and sail panels black, even though I have the headliner kit as well. I will paint the console red as per factory with OER paint. One thing I would like to find is the RS Red deluxe steering wheel that would finish the inside off.

My intention is to also purchase some cheap seat covers so that the seats dont get damaged from driving.

Just got to fix a few mechanical issues then it will be full steam.

Due to my engine running an oil breather tank I removed the PCV valve, this has caused several oil leaks, currently looking into a morosso vacuume pump v belt driven.