68 Camaro LSX Swap

[RSZ28]

Starting an LSX swap into my 68 very soon. 6L Gen IV Holden motor. Will keep you all posted on progress with pics during the project. Have heard a lot of these have gone into Mustangs and Cobras, so now a Camaro. Aiming eventually for a pro touring look.

At present the sub frame is out for a clean and coat along with control arms, radiator support, and maybe the inner fenders.

Cheers all.

[cluxford]

We need pics along the way....

[EAT-30T]

With the price of those things and the amount of HP per $$ its a hard swap to resist!

[RSZ28]

We need pics along the way....

Absolutely. And pictures ye all shall have. Should have the mounts in a couple weeks so the trial fit up can start. Sub frame etc should be back from paint by then.

With the price of those things and the amount of HP per $$ its a hard swap to resist!

Sure is hard to resist.....and 100kg or more less than the BB on the front end.

Cheers...

[RSZ28]

A couple pics as promised.

Sub frame, control arms, radiator support, inner fenders cleaned and ready to go off to the sandblast and 2 pack guy. Dropped them Thursday, went back to inspect the welds on the subframe on Friday. All ok. No dud welds. No cracks. Pick up Monday / Tuesday.

503

6L Gen IV GM motor and 4 speed auto patiently ready & waiting to take their place in the sun once the subframe is back and the ATS mounts, F Body pan, etc., turn up in about a week.

504OK.



More to follow.....

[EAT-30T]

This seriously gets me thinking.... I should throw an LS1 in mine... you can even get the manifold, carby and ignition control module so you can run a carby setup..... now that would be bad ass with a 150HP plate under the carb :)!!! and cost effective HP

More pics when you progress please :)

[RSZ28]

This seriously gets me thinking.... I should throw an LS1 in mine... you can even get the manifold, carby and ignition control module so you can run a carby setup..... now that would be bad ass with a 150HP plate under the carb :)!!! and cost effective HP

More pics when you progress please :)

Yep...more pics soon. Got the front end etc back from the clean and coat yesterday. I have more insight now into the difference between industrial sand blasters and coaters, and shops that are experienced in doing auto stuff. It is a reasonable finish, but laid on a little heavy with a coarse gun so it does not have that perfectly smooth appearance...maybe a good powder coat may have been better. All a Learning Experience.

GM Performance Parts has a new catalog just released. Lots of LSX goodies listed there as well as BBC and SBC. Very comprehensive. Helps take the confusion out of all the LSX options and combinations...not dial up friendly though....30MB.

Cheers.

[RSZ28]

Pix attached....Some progress with the 6litre L76 and 4L65E trans into the 68 Camaro. I know everyone will prolly say just get headers, but the only glitch with this so far has been that the stock exhaust manifolds dont fit and the alternator is similar. Maybe with a few mods they might...the heat shields touch the engine mounts...but it looks tight. Everything else has ample clearance.

Now I need to get the oil pan clearanced for the steering. And start thinking about what type of headers I will either build, or buy, & figure out how to get the alternator in. It currently just touches the x member, but from others I have seen the alternator should fit down low with the same bracketry. Maybe I just need to spin the backing plate around.

Not shown is the radiator/radiator support fitted. The radiator is a largish two row aluminium piece. The standard VZ commodore top hose just fits, but the bottom hose will take some work.

600

601


Cheers.

[cluxford]

Headers...heat shields.....who cares....I want to know where the twin turbos are going ???????

Front end came up nice and clean, and engine looks great sitting in there, you must be pretty pleased

[EAT-30T]

I'm shutting this thread down.... :p its bad for my health



Just kidding... f*ck that gets me excited! :D

[RSZ28]

Headers...heat shields.....who cares....I want to know where the twin turbos are going ???????

Front end came up nice and clean, and engine looks great sitting in there, you must be pretty pleased

Heh heh heh....plenty of room each side for turbos to nestle down between the oil pan and sub frame rails.....straight out of the heads down into the turbines...similar to GenTT from LS1 Turbo setup. Biggest challenge is where the intercooler might fit...and after that....how to stop it...:p

And yes very happy with the way it has come together so far. The front end etc came up reasonably well. Replaced all the control arm bushes and ball joints. Having the front end set up to wheel around and slide under the body makes it easy to trial fit etc. The steering is not in, but the steering arms are tied to the control arms to keep the wheels locked straight so they dont flip flop all over the place when wheeling around. The springs arent in either.

Gotta clean up the firewall now.

I'm shutting this thread down.... :p its bad for my health


Just kidding... f*ck that gets me excited! :D

Sorry bout that. It'll be very exciting to have it running some time on the near future....though I dont know that it would get near Mr Luxford's mountain motor weapon. That'll be something to behold...see it, hear it, feel it...shake the earth....

HAve a good weekend y'all...

[RSZ28]

I've gone and done it now....

Always really wanted to go with an A6 for this LSX conversion. Settled on the 4L65E as the 6L80's were rare as rocking horse doo doo, or very expensive...like $6k at the friendly holden dealer.

Well....an A6 came up. 6L90 which is the HD version of the 6L80.

337kw power rating, 720NM input torque rating. 1200NM output torque rating.

Its on the way. Will it fit? It's gonna be tight. The answer to that question comes very soon......

It appears from many enquiries I have made that this conversion has not been done in a Gen1 Camaro. It was attempted recently on a 66 GTO on V8TV. They revised the objectives when it hung a little too low. The 66 Poncho does not have much of a tunnel. Needs major cut work fitting a T56. Fingers x'd the Camaro tunnel will need a lot less, or even no mods.

4L65E on the block.

Picture of the 6L90 mutha....

625

[Surly]

Awesome project. Just remember that while LSX are cheap HP up front, every extra HP is substantially dearer than SBC or BBC.

The LS1 in my 34 has custom brackets to swap accessories around. The idler pulleys mean the brackets don't have to be overly fancy to work.

Hope the pic below gives you a few idea.

http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/surly34/webblo.jpg

cheers
Surly

[EAT-30T]

This thing is gonna be a weapon.... with everyday reliability..

Unreal..

[cluxford]

I've only read a little about those gearboxes....stunning.....you gunna race this thing ?

[RSZ28]

Awesome project. Just remember that while LSX are cheap HP up front, every extra HP is substantially dearer than SBC or BBC.

The LS1 in my 34 has custom brackets to swap accessories around. The idler pulleys mean the brackets don't have to be overly fancy to work.

Hope the pic below gives you a few idea.

http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/surly34/webblo.jpg

cheers
SurlyThats one nice rod Surly. Is that a Holden alternator sitting up top? You got the custom brackets made up?

Thanks for the post and shot and welcome on board.

[RSZ28]

I've only read a little about those gearboxes....stunning.....you gunna race this thing ?

Yes Mr Luxford I hope to get out to WSID a few times once it is all done and sorted :D :D :D . A VE Commodore ran a 12.0 out there a few weeks back with the A6 and MT's and a stock convertor, running a cam, 1 7/8 4 into 1's, and an Oztrack tune. And those things weigh in at about 1850kg's. My 68 was 1520 kg with the BBC. With the LSX it should be in the 1430-1450 range....though am sure the rear end when I get to it will add a little more...

The 6L80/90 is a very different box. Almost no hydraulics compared to the traditional trans. Just an in box computer operating a few solenoids which operate the clutches. Doesn't that sound simple? These A6's are running in a variety of cars & trucks, so getting these to work has become a lot simpler. Still a lot to know about them but its all fun.

This forum helps supply the inspiration to do interesting stuff that aint all that easy....

This thing is gonna be a weapon.... with everyday reliability..

Unreal..

That's the hope Mr EAT, ....A6 has something like a 4:1 first gear, and about a 0.67:1 6th. With a 2.9 or 3.0 rear, you can pull a hole shot with an equivalent of about 4.11's in the back, and then cruise home at 1200rpm at 100k's. Or something like that. But I would never claim to have done this for the mileage right? Even my missus would see through that.:p

A ways to go yet....

Cheers all n have a good weekend.

[Surly]

Thats one nice rod Surly. Is that a Holden alternator sitting up top? You got the custom brackets made up?

Thanks for the post and shot and welcome on board.

Yes standard commodore alternator and custom brackets and spacers to line it up with the belt.

cheers
Surly

[RSZ28]

Been busy with other stuff, but there is some more progress....6 speed auto arrived last week and slotted it in for a trial fit up....its a tall piece of work...required tunnel revisions...it hurt to do this...but it was a plane Jane car, no numbers matching, and the A6 is not gonna fit any other way.

Some comparisons shown below re the differences between the 4L60 and the 6L80/90.

Next on the list....trim out and finish the tunnel nice and neat and fab up a new rear X member. Get the steering mounted back in to check what revisions are required on the oil pan....etc

694

695

696

697

698

699

700

701

[EAT-30T]

Cool I was waiting for updates..... Looks like the A6 is a bit of work to fit?

[RSZ28]

Cool I was waiting for updates..... Looks like the A6 is a bit of work to fit?

Yes it is a bit of work....but not as bad as the worst case I feared after I saw a 66 GTO on V8TV with absolutely no chance of fitting without major surgery.

It looks like it will take approx 40mm at the front and 20mm at the rear of the box to get good clearance. It would work with zero mods...if it did not have such a deep pan. As it is I will need to take an inch or more out of the pan height to get reasonable ground clearance. It has a truck pan. Deep and lots of fluid capacity. The Commodore and Cadi pans are shallower. Though even they will need to be modded as they are 35mm shorter. :eek:

What are projects for right?

[RSZ28]

Some more shots of getting the rear cross member worked out, trans pan clearance, exhaust manifolds. Yeah I know I should do extractors, but the manifolds...VE Commodore...will save a lot of time now. I hope. Time for some tubes when the body is in the shop for paint....

717

718

719

720

721

722

[EAT-30T]

Thats way cool!!! :D

Don't worry about the manifolds... those cast things are good ;) they won't hold you back much at all!

[RSZ28]

Thats way cool!!! :D

Don't worry about the manifolds... those cast things are good ;) they won't hold you back much at all!

What software did you use to do your sig picture? If you dont mind me asking.

[EAT-30T]

What software did you use to do your sig picture? If you dont mind me asking.


That be photoshop... its just something I knocked up in a couple of minutes... I figured no point spending too long on it as it will change...

[RSZ28]

That be photoshop... its just something I knocked up in a couple of minutes... I figured no point spending too long on it as it will change...

Looks like you can work some magic with photoshop. Can you work up nice logos and stuff with intregrated piccies as well?

[EAT-30T]

Looks like you can work some magic with photoshop. Can you work up nice logos and stuff with intregrated piccies as well?


Meh why not? :)

[RSZ28]

Thought some of you may be interested in what is required to fit an LSX motor into an early Camaro....as far as engine mounts and the oil pan is concerned....

From side with stock F Body oil pan with gap to cross member at front..(LS7 block).
802


Oil pan clearance over cross member...shows LH engine mount. ATS mount kit bolts on to standard block mounting holes, standard type engine mounts bolt to stock frame stands.
803


"Short" motor looks quite compact sitting in stock small block position...
804


Lower down from front with heads on, showing (though photo is not great) VE Commodore exhaust manifolds which fit well...oil pan sits about 15-20mm above front x member.
805


Right hand engine mount shown bolting to stock frame mount, good pan clearance, and view down main tunnel where the 4" crank will sit. LS7 block features billet 6 bolt main caps, line honed mains, and is deck plate bored and honed from the factory.
806


Notch out of oil pan to permit steering clearance across range L to R.
807


From below with steeering on centre...oil pan is a cast unit with integral filter mount. The pan is designed to be a structural element of the engine assembly and is very stiff.
808


Notch in pan with stock pickup location shown. Pickup needs to be moved to the rear a little to clear the notched pan.
809

Next step is to get the pan welded and revise the pick up location.

[cluxford]

Ian, that looks amazing...interesting activity on the oil pan there. Surprisingly easy when you think of it, show how little the exterior of V8's have changed in 40 years compared to the horsepower per cube they pump out....

[PSIWOG]

Headers...heat shields.....who cares....I want to know where the twin turbos are going ???????

Now your talking my language :D go a couple hair dryers :p

[RSZ28]

Now your talking my language :D go a couple hair dryers :p

Plenty of room for a couple of itty bitty turbos :D Not so sure about the intercooler and the related plumbing. Though I have seen a VZ Commodore with with forward mounted twins with 6" exhausts :eek: filling up each side of the engine bay, so there is hope.

[EAT-30T]

Procharger = GAME OVER!! :D

[RSZ28]

Update:

Rear X member completed. Tunnel close up completed. Now for engine build up and exhaust.

835

836

837

838

Cheers.

[Nev68]

[QUOTE=RSZ28;6116]Update:

Rear X member completed. Tunnel close up completed. Now for engine build up and exhaust.

This is looking good.
You must have some easy rego up your way.
We would never get a left hand drive 68 on the road with that motor in SA.
I don't know why though, in theory a standard Gen 3 or 4 is probably more environmentally friendly and economical.

Rgds
Nev

[67cammy]

No, your right there Nev. Good old SA. I still cant understand why you can only modify if its been converted to RHD? Just doesnt make sense to me :confused:

[RSZ28]

This is looking good.
You must have some easy rego up your way.
We would never get a left hand drive 68 on the road with that motor in SA.
I don't know why though, in theory a standard Gen 3 or 4 is probably more environmentally friendly and economical.

Rgds
Nev

Thanks for the comments guys.

I wouldn't call it easy rego, but it is realistic and still tough. :eek: There are standards (which reflect the national standards), and they are enforced.

You are dead right on the environmental impact Nev. There are a number of reasons for this conversion, all which make the car safer and cleaner.

It will comply with EuroIII emissions standards, be E85 capable, get 30-35 mpg on the highway, be quiet (compliant with dual mode system), take about 75kg off the front end which improves braking and durability, as well as a being a better balanced car dynamically with a more rearward centre of gravity.

One of the contributors (we all need flaky reasons that work with the ministry of finance right!) was the fuel vapor emissions. Never gave a thought to carbed cars back in the late 60's/early 70's.

It is stunning how much they just sit in the garage and fume. Which when you have the garage as part of the house, is really noticeable. I had to put glad wrap over the carb to stop the whole house reeking of petrol. (which I forgot to take off a couple times :eek: :eek: :eek: talk about auto choke!)

And when it was started you had to let the garage air for 15 minutes to clear it out.

Also had a workmate that had a 60's VW. That was 10X worse again. I swear if you lit a match next to the car, it would have exploded. Compared to when you gas your car at the petrol station, a normal bowser has nothing on his car for fumes.

Cheers y'all :D

[RSZ28]

quick update.......after an intense few weeks (months) work, with numerous delays for this and that, the LS engine fired up in the weekend.

The last few weeks saw the front subframe wheeled under and bolted up for the last time, exhaust system built, high pressure fuel system including SS tank..finalised and tested. EFI harness installed, radiator installed after being modified to relocate the inlet and outlet and to reduce their size a little. (the TIG being on the blink got in the way of that for a while, but now working AOK and turning out beautiful aluminium work.)

She fired up within about 10 secs as the fuel made it through from the tank into the injection manifolds up front and idled nicely. Oil pressure was good at 40psi (produces 30psi on the starter motor alone), engine quiet (i was hoping for some piston slap with the forged slugs, but these are slightly different alloy to regular forged pistons and go in about a thou tighter than normal.)

dont know if I mentioned it before, but some time back I made the leap to an LS7 7 litre Corvette engine, vs the originally intended 6L L76/L98 LS engine.

This was built up from a genuine LS7 block, forged crank, rods & pistons. Factory these engines turn out 505HP SAE, and about 545 regular HP. This one is detuned a little (at least initially), but am sure the power will still be adequate.....:D

Still to mount up the fans and run the cooling system under pressure, and checking for oil leaks from the sectioned oil pan.

Apols.....pics to follow....just have not had a chance to get them together and post. :eek:

[cluxford]

Ian,

congrats that is awesome progress and you must be really happy to hear it sing...

Not only do we want pics...we need audio as well !!!

[RSZ28]

congrats that is awesome progress and you must be really happy to hear it sing...

Not only do we want pics...we need audio as well !!!

Yes very happy to hear the right noise!

I'll get to the audio, but it may be disappointing. I have gone the more quiet route as the fact the house shook and the windows rattled before was not seen in good light by the other half, or the neighbours.

Shot taken just after the engine was installed, not yet neatened up, and with the fenders and hood just screwed on:


Small shot:
904

Larger:
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/lsx427/Camaro/LS7in68CamaroFirstShot.jpg?t=1221520476

Cheers!

[Nev68]

Yes very happy to hear the right noise!

I'll get to the audio, but it may be disappointing. I have gone the more quiet route as the fact the house shook and the windows rattled before was not seen in good light by the other half, or the neighbours.

Shot taken just after the engine was installed, not yet neatened up, and with the fenders and hood just screwed on:


Small shot:
904

Larger:
http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/lsx427/Camaro/LS7in68CamaroFirstShot.jpg?t=1221520476

Cheers!


Any more photos with the engine bay neatened up?
Do you have to do any instrument changes or can you get original instruments working with this conversion?

Nev

[RSZ28]

Any more photos with the engine bay neatened up?
Do you have to do any instrument changes or can you get original instruments working with this conversion?

Nev

HI Nev,

For instruments, so far I am running a nifty little device called a Dashdaq (pix) which plugs into the diagnostic port of the GM computer and gives access to over 800 parameters, main ones of which are speedo, tacho, oil, temp. If it was just for those I would not have got it, but it gives full logging and diagnostic capability, plus connection of things like broadband O2 sensors for fine tuning mixtures etc, as well as every GM specific parameter you can think of.

It also does Fords, Subarus, Chrysler, Toyota, Mazda, basically any car with a late model OBD diagnostic port.

I kinda like the regular Camaro speedo, plus it has the odometer (Dashdaq will do this too, but) so will build a little device to drive that which converts the pulse output from the ECM, to a motor that drives the regular speedo. (wasn't that easy to say. :eek: ). Or maybe look at a speedo out of a late model Commodore dash, which will drive directly from the ECM.

The fuel guage works ok with the DSE tank and sender, though the Dashdaq will do that too, so maybe the Dashdaq can go in the fuel guage space.

Another under bonnet pic. Not complete, More work to do, but much more complete than the last pic. At least in these it is driving. So far have done almost 200km and the power is, well, scary at times. It gets up and goes! :D

The car now weighs around 110kg less than the big block, and was 1410kg with about 60L of fuel, so dry it is maybe 1350-1370kg.


Shot of dash. Dashdaq is up high on windscreen. ECM currently located in glovebox for ease of access. Glovebox lid is removed. Some tidy up to get done in here the dash/footwell area. New dash pad is waiting to be installed.
939

The Dashdaq. Currently showing temp, speed, tacho. Has about 10 screens with up to 12 gauges per screen (digital format too), which can be assigned to any parameter of 100's. Also can graph and log and read out and clear diagnostic codes.
942

Under the bonnet (hood....).
941

Still a little more neatening up to do with wiring and fuel lines, and maybe some slick engine covers, but at least we are on the road....."road testing".

[EAT-30T]

Looking great there Ian :)

[67cammy]

Ian that is amazing. I love it! Its a credit to you being able to nut all that stuff out. Unreal :)

[AUSCAMARO]

This is going to be insane..... I love your work!

I'm starting to kick myself for giving my mate my GenIII LS1 engine to put in his GTS R replica. But I spose at that time I wasn't looking at getting a Camaro, it was only a pipe dream then..

Nice job Ian.

Mitch

[RSZ28]

Thanks Guys,

Really, really appreciate the kind words. I wouldn't for a minute say this was an easy project. Over the years I have done many, many car projects.

From building custom extractors for V8 Toranas, putting together 9" 4 link rear suspensions, putting together tailshafts, building turbo installations on 4's, 6's, 8's and bikes, exhaust systems, fuel injection, even building a nitrous installation from scratch (before there were off the shelf kits), and this was the hardest project to date. Period!

BUT.......it was not the LS installation, which is are very straightforward, even relatively easy, it was the 6 speed auto which was the challenge, and took the bulk of the work to fit in. Which in part is due to me being so finicky about getting things right. I mean.....~7 trial fits of the subframe with engine and trans! :eek: Maybe a bit over the top.

Knucklehead me, in Australia of all places, was the first goose to do this in a gen1 Camaro. Anywhere! No one had completed one in the US either. A lot of interest from the US, and I have helped a few people out over there with advice now with shoehorning these 6 speed autos in. Even shipped trans oil pans over there, as they cant get the shallow version yet. Popular Hot Rodding was very interested and put the car in its under construction area a couple issues after Mr Luxford's fire breather.

There is a few A6's under way now. One in Adelaide too. We are very adventurous and capable downunder!! There is a beautiful 69 SS Camaro in California which will be in PHR in January with an LS7 dry sump and 6L90 six speed auto project. Now that my car is running, and his 69 is in PHR in Jan, he has the get up and go to finish it and get it on the road too. Great stuff! :)

(FYI - anyone reading, please let me know if you have good shots and we can line up PHR. They are after material, and there is some really good stuff being done on this forum. Very good stuff! Sir Geo's, Nev's, Kurt's, Muggz's, Mr Luxford's, Paul's and all the other's projects which are hard work dyed in the wool restos, are world class!)

The LS installations are "known science" these days. There are a couple different mount kits, I use ATS because of the fore/aft and low down positioning-and they are beautifully made, which enable the LS to be a bolt in conversion. With the right parts brought together, these conversions can be done reasonably quickly. The T56 and 4L60/65E transmissions are well proven too. Now maybe there will be more A6's on the road too!

At the end of the day, glad I did it! It "hauls ass" believe me. A 1400kg car with a 427 is just plain scary fast. And that's detuned. Nice!

Now just need to get the body and paint done, and some real wheels........:cool:

Cheers all!

[TUFF68]

Knucklehead me, in Australia of all places, was the first goose to do this in a gen1 Camaro. Anywhere! No one had completed one in the US either.

Well done Ian, i guess this makes you a Pioneer in this type of conversion :cool:

[RSZ28]

Well done Ian, i guess this makes you a Pioneer in this type of conversion :cool:

Thanks again!

Heh heh. :eek: I think I would have preferred to not be a pioneer though (you know what happened to all the pioneers in the wild west of the USA! :p ). I started trying to find someone that had done this about a year ago. A year later and a lot of pain, its done, but the pain will fade and is being replaced by satisfaction and a freakin great grin! :D

[Nev68]

HI Nev,

For instruments, so far I am running a nifty little device called a Dashdaq (pix) which plugs into the diagnostic port of the GM computer and gives access to over 800 parameters, main ones of which are speedo, tacho, oil, temp. If it was just for those I would not have got it, but it gives full logging and diagnostic capability, plus connection of things like broadband O2 sensors for fine tuning mixtures etc, as well as every GM specific parameter you can think of.

It also does Fords, Subarus, Chrysler, Toyota, Mazda, basically any car with a late model OBD diagnostic port.

I kinda like the regular Camaro speedo, plus it has the odometer (Dashdaq will do this too, but) so will build a little device to drive that which converts the pulse output from the ECM, to a motor that drives the regular speedo. (wasn't that easy to say. :eek: ). Or maybe look at a speedo out of a late model Commodore dash, which will drive directly from the ECM.

The fuel guage works ok with the DSE tank and sender, though the Dashdaq will do that too, so maybe the Dashdaq can go in the fuel guage space.

Another under bonnet pic. Not complete, More work to do, but much more complete than the last pic. At least in these it is driving. So far have done almost 200km and the power is, well, scary at times. It gets up and goes! :D

The car now weighs around 110kg less than the big block, and was 1410kg with about 60L of fuel, so dry it is maybe 1350-1370kg.


Shot of dash. Dashdaq is up high on windscreen. ECM currently located in glovebox for ease of access. Glovebox lid is removed. Some tidy up to get done in here the dash/footwell area. New dash pad is waiting to be installed.
939

The Dashdaq. Currently showing temp, speed, tacho. Has about 10 screens with up to 12 gauges per screen (digital format too), which can be assigned to any parameter of 100's. Also can graph and log and read out and clear diagnostic codes.
942

Under the bonnet (hood....).
941

Still a little more neatening up to do with wiring and fuel lines, and maybe some slick engine covers, but at least we are on the road....."road testing".

Great job. (understatement)
Could you change to graphics on the Dashdaq LCD screen to look like original guages?
That would look trick.

Rgds,
Nev

[RSZ28]

Great job. (understatement)
Could you change to graphics on the Dashdaq LCD screen to look like original guages?
That would look trick.

Rgds,
Nev

Yes the Dashdaq people are just finishing off a tool that allows the user to design the gauges to look like what ever appearance or colour/skin scheme anyone likes.

Just need to get some time to mess around with it! :eek:

Cheers!

[Dicko]

Nice set up.

Out of interest, there's a pair of LS to camaro headers on ebay at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180306686318

[RSZ28]

Nice set up.

Out of interest, there's a pair of LS to camaro headers on ebay at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=180306686318

Thanks Dicko,

Appreciate your mentioning these tubes on ebay. I have read that these are really tight fits especially with power steering, and complicated a little in whether Hooker engine mounts are used or not.

I used ATS mounts which sit low and forward (ATS supplies stuff to Mark Stielow who is like the daddy of Pro Touring - ATS has really nice stuff), and was planning on building a set of largish long tube tri-y's if I dont eventually do twin turbos........:eek:

FYI alll -got the paddle shifting operating last weekend. At present running on a pair of push buttons for up and down, but it runs really well. Prior to this (also called Tap Up/Tap Down, and Driver Shift Control), I had a truck calibration in the trans, which was really quite snappy compared to a VE Commodore A6, but the truck calibration had no ability for manual control.

Re-programmed the trans around the basis of an 08 Corvette, and now have the manual shifting. After 3 years of development, Chevy has this running quite well now, even blipping on downshifts to rev match, very similar to an M3 with SMG.:D

More pics coming soon. Gotta get it on a hoist and take some shots of the underside and how the trans fills the tunnel. Looking at reworking the rear X member this weekend as it seems it may not be stiff enough for the heavier trans. Or maybe just me being too finicky.

Also re-tuned the 427 to run on E85 Ethanol. Quite impressed with low end throttle response. Engine is built at about 11.9:1 static, and with the octane rating of ethanol being way over 100, the combo is working well. :cool:

Cheers and have a good weekend!

[Nev68]

This is a good read.
I'd love to go down the LSX road given the opportunity (and the money)

I read that Edelbrock do headers / exhuasts for LSX into 1st gen Camaros.
See the link.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/retrofit/ls1.shtml

I also read about the Reggie Jackson 69 Camaro. (69 camaro with LSX motor)
There are some interesting pics on the build of this car on many sites.
I had a look at the trans X-member after reading your last entry and it doesn't look as substantial as the unit shown in one of your previous entries.

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n387/nev68/Jackson1969__xmemberexhaust.jpg

It looks like there might be some clearance issue with the exhaust in this photo.

Do you need more strength due to weight only?

Good work!
Keep the updates coming.

Rgds,
Nev

[RSZ28]

This is a good read.
I'd love to go down the LSX road given the opportunity (and the money)

I read that Edelbrock do headers / exhuasts for LSX into 1st gen Camaros.
See the link.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/retrofit/ls1.shtml

I also read about the Reggie Jackson 69 Camaro. (69 camaro with LSX motor)
There are some interesting pics on the build of this car on many sites.
I had a look at the trans X-member after reading your last entry and it doesn't look as substantial as the unit shown in one of your previous entries.

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n387/nev68/Jackson1969__xmemberexhaust.jpg

It looks like there might be some clearance issue with the exhaust in this photo.

Do you need more strength due to weight only?

Good work!
Keep the updates coming.

Rgds,
Nev

Thanks Nev,

That view of Reggie's exhaust does look a little tight.

Originally fab'd the rear X member to be simple, reasonably quick, to fit a tight space, be straight across (vs the U shaped versions you see) and be strong enough to take the weight, which is about 25kg more than a TH400 and mostly balanced toward the rear. It is quite a tight fit to get through the rear mount area, which is why it is 25mm thickwall tube.

I thought it may not be stiff enough, and intended to add on some stiffening later. Now I decided I want a little more exhaust clearance, which means using the factory cross member space in the floor as well and maybe gaining 20mm more height, which gives the opportunity to get a stiffer x member in. The existing one is a little too "springy" for my liking and over time it may fatigue, plus I am guessing it creates a little vibration at 100k's.

While the exhaust could stay as is, adding stiffeners to the existing x member will mean 10 - 15mm less clearance again.

Its the largish factory BBC TH400 x member shown in other posts. May cut the middle out and move the centre rearwards a little until it fits. It is a very stiff thingy. Made out of pressed 4mm wall tube.

The x member not only supports the gearbox, but also forms a rear load bearing cross member for the rear of the subframe, so it plays a part in the overall stiffness of the car.

On the cost, with the Holden Gen IV crate motors being available for under 4k, auto trans' for less than $1500 (a while back), the conversion can be done for under 10k if it is DIY. I figured the better part of that would get spent on bringing the BBC and trans up to date, so the LSX is not a bad option considering the power potential they have. When you have unopened VE Commodores at 1750kg running 11's......and cammed/tuned/exhaust/cold air cars with a little head work producing 350rwkw, they are good value.

I did deviate a "little" :eek: from the original plan, into an LS7/427 and A6. Doh! It's also a tribute to one of my best friends that passed away earlier this year with big C. He was a 427 nut. Loved the number.

Cheers!

[cluxford]

Ian, any updates pics. ??????

[RSZ28]

Ian, any updates pics. ??????

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the prodding ;-))).

Concidentally I am planning to take the car around to the local guy with a hoist this Saturday morning family schedules permitting so I can do the some shots of the underside and post. He is lined up for it, so unless he gets swamped, or it is raining, should happen.

Recently got some better wheels - 15 X 8 Rallys and reasonable sized tyres.

And had the rear end out and cleaned painted. Posi on the way.

So far have run up 4,000km+. Its going well. Currently tuning it too, have not had a chance to do this until now, though with EFI motors, plug them in and turn the key and they pretty well go :D (if you cross your fingers really tight! :eek: ).

Even dropping by the E85 gas station and filling with E85 does not phase it.

Adds 50Nm of torque instantly though :)!

Picture taken on a summer cruise with the Camaro Firebird club. And a couple others....69 Z28 and 67 Firebird 400, and a 60 Cadi coupe...nice!

Cheers, Ian

1845

1846

1847

[RSZ28]

It has taken too long to get these pix done. Finally got a hoist lined up for some shots of the underside of the LS and A6 conversion on the 68.

1919

1925

1926

1923

Now just need some shots with the better wheels. :D

[Nev68]

Looks great.
How does it run, feel, sound etc etc?
Do you use PULP, ULP or always E85?

Have you had it on a dyno?

How's the fuel consumption?

Nev

[RSZ28]

Looks great.
How does it run, feel, sound etc etc?
Do you use PULP, ULP or always E85?

Have you had it on a dyno?

How's the fuel consumption?

Nev

Hi Nev, still some improvements to make, the exhaust is mild steel 2 1/4", need to do some 2.5" stainless front section soon.

Run it on both PULP and E85, and whatever mix ends up in the tank. Must try it on regular juice sometime, though would need to use some pretty mild timing as the comp is around 11.7:1 or so. Good question. Must get to that!

Haven't had it on the dyno as yet (no Posi), though the GM ECM provides a torque number which is reportedly accurate to 20Nm.

Based on this it is producing over 600Nm (~450ft lbs) from about 1500rpm right through to about 5300rpm, with a peak 670-680Nm at 3600rpm (500ft lbs).

The power is off a little due to a stock 6L cam in use at present which produces the hefty torque curve, but limits power to about 430-430Hp (more tuning to come) as it stops breathing deep from about 4600rpm. Its around what I expected with that cam. And yes when the time comes it will get a "real" cam! LOL....but there is no traction in 1st and 2nd at this point (Posi coming :))) ) so more power will be useful from then on!

May give it a run on the dyno when the posi is in and the tune is more on the mark. At the moment it is largely a stock tune, but working on it. May try it at the track then too for some shakedown runs to see how it runs at 110-120mph through the traps (if it goes that fast LOL :D ).

Some mates are reporting that taking the cats off is giving them 50-70Hp, so that will be interesting. Am running regular Holden cats at present, so they are definately not high flow.

Consumption is good at cruise on the highway, maybe 10-12l/100km on E85, 8-9 on PULP. In traffic, seems similar to any V8 - 16-20l/100km, depends on whether it is a peak hour slog or not, though with E85 it is using 30% more juice than with petrol. Similar to a production Corvette which does around 28-30mpg (US gallon) on the highway.

Runs smooth as, starts easily, runs cool, shifts seamlessly most of the time, drives well, like any stock Camaro I guess, with front end in good condition. Scary fast when you get into it (though thats all relative right!) Reasonably quiet at idle/low speed which is good for the neighbourhood (the previous 454 with flowmasters shook the windows through the whole house, and the mortar starting coming out from between the bricks LOL! ) and screams when opened up. Will sound even better with "revised" cat status.

Cheers, Ian

[cluxford]

wow Ian great to see it getting plenty of road time. Pics look great. Some serious torque numbers. I assume those skinny rears spend more time smokin than driving

[Nev68]

Thanks Ian,
Keep on giving us updates as you tweak and tune.
This is an excellent conversion.
I'd love to give it a crack one day.

Nev

[Sfinx]

Hi Ian,

Awesome job! I just finished reading this thread from start to end and its been great. Congratulations on the work, to start this build back then without the help of the aftermarket jugernaut in the USA and to complete one of the first swaps is a amazing feat. Please keep posting progress as you continue your build. Best of luck.

Cheers,
Gavin

[69SS]

Just read this tread from start to finish.. excellent job Ian, I have an LS6 and T56 in my 69, but I cant take the credit for the swap asit was done in the states.

I have a question for you regarding your cats.. Have you changed them out for some hiflow puppies or still standard?? The reason I am asking is that mine is currently cat less and at this stage I am not sure if I am going to have to fit them for rego in perth.. The rules are a bit un clear on this with the engine swap - some say if the engine came with them they should be fitted, and others as its a Oct 68 build that it dosent, as its pre ADR.. confused hell yeah!

Congrates on a great build mate and you have me sold on the Dashdaq.

Cheers,

lyndsay

[RSZ28]

Hi Ian,

Awesome job! I just finished reading this thread from start to end and its been great. Congratulations on the work, to start this build back then without the help of the aftermarket jugernaut in the USA and to complete one of the first swaps is a amazing feat. Please keep posting progress as you continue your build. Best of luck.

Cheers,
Gavin

Thanks Gavin, appreciate the compliments and the encouragement!

Cheers! :D

[Nev68]

Lyndsay,
Don't know if you have the same rules as we have in SA but I am fairly sure that the exhaust must be updated if you put in a modern engine.
Sometimes I think the rules / laws are deliberately vague.:(
So it makes it hard when you are trying to do the right thing and everyone you talk to has a different definition or understanding of the rule in question.

http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/pdfs/personal_transport/light_vehicles_pdfs/engine_changes_less_4gvm_01.pdf

[RSZ28]

Just read this tread from start to finish.. excellent job Ian, I have an LS6 and T56 in my 69, but I cant take the credit for the swap asit was done in the states.

I have a question for you regarding your cats.. Have you changed them out for some hiflow puppies or still standard?? The reason I am asking is that mine is currently cat less and at this stage I am not sure if I am going to have to fit them for rego in perth.. The rules are a bit un clear on this with the engine swap - some say if the engine came with them they should be fitted, and others as its a Oct 68 build that it dosent, as its pre ADR.. confused hell yeah!

Congrates on a great build mate and you have me sold on the Dashdaq.

Cheers,

lyndsay

Thanks for the compliments Lyndsay. Good to see someone else out there that's gone down the LS route :).

Some pics in order? Or have I missed them somewhere else? :confused:

Re the cats, there was no hard requirement for them. It seems to depend state to state. There does seem to be some interpretations applied that follow the line of "if the engine had it then you need to fit it", but that was not the case in NSW when I called and asked. Though I do know of engineers on some projects that specify them.

At the end of the day the car is cleaner and my conscience clear :). At around 8l/100k on the freeway, it doesnt suck much gas either. Bumper to bumper is a different matter :eek:. Though still around 14-18.

That said, I do have a couple bends and the flanges there to knock up a set of cat replacements to see what the effect is in terms of power and noise level, and make sure it will run as well as possible for the strip when I get the posi done.

A mate who is an avid tuner and racer has indicated that his cats when removed for the track gave an extra 50kw (or was it HP) at the rear wheels. That was with a good cam, good intake and a largish exhaust system plus 4:1's.

So I guess if the WA rego dept has a tech line, worth calling them and asking to see what their spin on the federal need not to have them. The feds leave it to the states to apply, so see how you go.

Cheers!

[RSZ28]

Finally got out early one sunday morning and took a few shots with the 15 x 8 Rallye wheels with trims. Looks vastly improved over the 14 x 7 steels.

2798

2799

Cheers.

[USA-69Z]

are these the rims your stickin' with? looks good with these. Its got the 'badpenny' look in ya avatar!
or is it ???
Gav

[69SS]

Those 15's look waaaay better, stance is sweet :D

Ian / Nev, that's just what a thought regarding the cats.. I'm just going to suck and see. I was planning a new 3in staino system for the new blower, so ill get some cats fitted then, if they don't pass it first up I'll just have to get the new system put in earlier.

I think the XR seats are sweet, going the same way myself, well at this stage anyway, I'm always changing my bloody mind.

Couple of pics if you missed it :) all taken in the states, I only had it for one day before having to go back to work.. oh the torment..

2809

2810

2811

[RSZ28]

are these the rims your stickin' with? looks good with these. Its got the 'badpenny' look in ya avatar!
or is it ???
Gav

That is the real "Bad Penny" in the avatar! To guide me in my quest! :D

For now the rallye wheels will stay. They look good and are period. Would like something similar to Penny, but at USD$1200 each plus shipping, will skip that for now.

There are similar spoke style wheels readily available, but they have late model metric bolt pitch circles, so may get to re-drill the pattern at some point after I figure out what needs to be done for them to fit as the late model offsets see much larger backspacing.

[RSZ28]

Those 15's look waaaay better, stance is sweet :D

Ian / Nev, that's just what a thought regarding the cats.. I'm just going to suck and see. I was planning a new 3in staino system for the new blower, so ill get some cats fitted then, if they don't pass it first up I'll just have to get the new system put in earlier.

I think the XR seats are sweet, going the same way myself, well at this stage anyway, I'm always changing my bloody mind.

Couple of pics if you missed it :) all taken in the states, I only had it for one day before having to go back to work.. oh the torment..

2809

2810

2811

Nice Lyndsay! Another LS convert on the forum! :) And with AC no less. That's "cool". :cool:

[RSZ28]

Wow 2+ years since I last posted above and a shade over 3 years since the engine first growled in anger. Time flies. Now over 12000km on the clock and frequently driven around Sydney and out of Sydney. Going well. Put some Ford ute buckets in a while back. Now me and the passengers dont slide off on turns from the stockers.

Cheers.:D

[Nev68]

Wow 2+ years since I last posted above and a shade over 3 years since the engine first growled in anger. Time flies. Now over 12000km on the clock and frequently driven around Sydney and out of Sydney. Going well. Put some Ford ute buckets in a while back. Now me and the passengers dont slide off on turns from the stockers.

Cheers.:D

Photos? :)

[RSZ28]

And pix ye shall have.

From the side
11271

Runners bolted to the original Camaro seat mount holes. Had to cut a few inches out of the centre of the seat frame and make some adaptor brackets up for the rear mounts.
11272

Comfy fit on the side. This seat is electric, just need to get butt in gear and connect up some buttons etc and its push button up and down. Also need to finish trimming and installing the side flashing to cover up a few things like the bare steel seat frame/hinge.
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Front view
11274

:)

[67SS502]

loving how the car looks stock from the outside but a beast underneath. i have to ask how does the 6L90 go? have you made it full manual? what did you end up doing with the cross member to get it to fit.

[RSZ28]

loving how the car looks stock from the outside but a beast underneath. i have to ask how does the 6L90 go? have you made it full manual? what did you end up doing with the cross member to get it to fit.

Yah sleeper is good :).

6L90 runs fine. Love it. It can either be full auto or full manual. Select manual position and press one of the tap up/down buttons and you are in full manual.

Do you mean the rear cross member? I fab'd it up to mount in the stock holes/place but it runs straight across and is extra stiff as this trans weighs a shade over 100kg.

[Anchor]

Do the ford seats sit low enough? I'm going through the same thing with my Nova atm. With my turbo L98 and T56 i want a seat that can be trimmed to look factory and still hold you in well. I had an xr6t ute with 500rwhp and they held me in good enough.

[RSZ28]

Do the ford seats sit low enough? I'm going through the same thing with my Nova atm. With my turbo L98 and T56 i want a seat that can be trimmed to look factory and still hold you in well. I had an xr6t ute with 500rwhp and they held me in good enough.

Well you know the seats :) they are lower than the factory seats which is what I wanted especially at the wheel to front cushion clearance. The pix show where they sit.

[67SS502]

Yah sleeper is good :).

6L90 runs fine. Love it. It can either be full auto or full manual. Select manual position and press one of the tap up/down buttons and you are in full manual.

Do you mean the rear cross member? I fab'd it up to mount in the stock holes/place but it runs straight across and is extra stiff as this trans weighs a shade over 100kg.

it would be fine, very fine. Which shifter are using?

[RSZ28]

Which shifter are using?

It is a fab'd shifter i built to fit. Uses a Hurst lever and handle which mounts super flush at floor level without a console, which bolts to a pretty simple mechanism which mounts to the floor and has a shift arm that extends down to the shift shaft. Built in the regular Hurst reversing switch.

Looks like a regular muscle car shifter :) Pure sleeper except for the Dashdaq, but then that looks like a GPS LOL.

Cheers.

[Ivan Vella]

Those seats look good, and a good ride height too.
Do they tilt and move forward like the factory ones? Or do you have to pull the seat forward and tilt the seat over?

[RSZ28]

Those seats look good, and a good ride height too.
Do they tilt and move forward like the factory ones? Or do you have to pull the seat forward and tilt the seat over?

They operate the same as the factory ute seats. Forward and back, adjustable back, and lever so you can flip the back forward. To get people in the back they need to come forward and have the back flipped.